The Voices for Voices Podcast Episode 13 with Guest, Dave Kagle, Experienced IT Professional and Father
Justin Alan Hayes:
Hello. Welcome to a very special episode of the podcast. Live backstage on the first stop of my 2022 World Momentum Tour at Caesar's Palace in Las Vegas, Nevada. I'm your host, Justin Alan Hayes. With me today is Dave Kagle. Dave is a Youngstown State University Alumni, who has been primarily working in IT for 18 years, in the location geographically in Columbus, Ohio. He started out as a desktop support technician, and now works as an infrastructure engineer with the state of Ohio. Dave has worked for Fortune 500 companies, small businesses, and recently started working for the state of Ohio. Dave also uniquely has changed jobs twice during the COVID-19 pandemic. What we're going to look to cover today and discuss, is the impact the pandemic has had on IT departments, which Dave is keenly aware of, from the experiences he has had.
Justin Alan Hayes:
He also changed jobs twice during the pandemic. So, we'll talk about what that was like, how the experience was, were there any major differences that he noticed during those job searches? Then also, hitting on the mental health and the challenges side of individuals that we were all going through something. Dave is a parent of a child that has been diagnosed as being autistic, also during the pandemic. So, we have a lot to get to, we're excited to be on live stream here for those of us on Facebook. As well as the listeners that will be checking out this podcast at a later date. It will be posted on the traditional venues where you get your podcast. So, Dave, thank you for joining me today.
Dave Kagle:
Thanks Justin. It's great to be here today and talk to all your listeners about some of the things they might not have been aware of during the pandemic. Things they may have just taken for granted, I'm happy to be here today.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Yeah. So, really just jumping in, let's talk about the career side of your experience during the pandemic. We've seen a lot of news, some good, some bad, but about hackers, hacking into certain systems. We saw, I believe it was a company, a pipeline company that was shut down for a period of time that affected supplies of oil, and gas prices went up. The safeguards really weren't in place. My understanding, partial understanding, is an intern, their password was passed on to some hackers who were able to get into the system. So, if you just want to give our viewers and our listeners just a little bit of background of yourself in IT, how you became interested, and then getting to the point of where we're at today.
Dave Kagle:
Yep. So, I had an interest in information technology from a younger age. I was always into computers as a kid. I started working with them when I was about 13, 14 years old and just developed from there. Built my first computer when I was 18, and then from there, well, I went to college at Youngstown State. I majored in management information systems. It's like computer information systems, but more geared towards the business side of information technology, versus strictly just all IT. Graduated in 2005, started out working part-time for a newspaper in Youngstown. Unfortunately, they are no longer there, but cut my teeth doing that for about a year and four months. Then took that experience and packed up and moved to Columbus, which is quickly becoming a hotbed for information technology, almost like a second Silicon Valley. Was able to work for big companies like Big Lots and Victoria Secret, Bath and Body Works Express, and also spent some time with American Signature, everyone knows them better as Value City Furniture.
Dave Kagle:
Recently started working with the state of Ohio. So, been around for a long time, spent 18 years in the field. I started out working in desktop support, which is, for anyone who's worked any corporate job, I was the person that would come to your desk if you needed help with your computer. So, application's not working, somethings acting weird and glitchy. I was typically one of the people that would assist you. I spent about seven and a half, to eight years doing that. Then I was lucky enough to get some Macintosh systems management training. I developed myself into a Macintosh system administrator. I spent a few years working in a role doing that primarily. Then that ballooned into working as an infrastructure engineer. An infrastructure engineer is the person who takes care of your behind the scenes stuff.
Dave Kagle:
I always joke with people. I say, "My job is to make your work computer not fun to use." So, all the fail safes you see regarding password requirements or application install, blocks, things of that nature are in my realm. I also support the enterprise grade server infrastructure. That is what keeps the business running from behind the scenes, the things most people don't even realize or know about. That's the space that I live in right now. Also, have a lot of exposure to information, IT security. With the companies I've worked at, I've always partnered with that group. So, my perspective on IT security has always been at the forefront. So, what you were speaking about in the intro, I've got a lot of experience in some of those realms.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Yeah. Definitely. Thank you for going into that detail. For our audiences, would you be able to discuss, during the pandemic, some of the security concerns from just a macro high level of a business of operating correctly or efficiently, but then also to take security very seriously?
Dave Kagle:
Yeah. So, one of the big challenges I had, the company I was working for at the time when the pandemic started, we had certain individuals we allowed to work remotely or work from home. So, we provided them with access to do so. Typically you get, it's called VPN access. You use your regular work sign in on an app on your work computer, and then it does some authentication, what I would call IT magic in the background happens. Then it's like you're sitting at your desk at work. You have access to work resources, network shares, sites that normally aren't available on the outside. We had individuals who, because of their positions, did not have that access. Nobody ever fathomed this particular group to ever need that access. Their job role was a customer service type role, where they worked three shifts.
Dave Kagle:
So, they would work sometimes six days a week, but it was primarily answering calls from customers. So, it was never planned for that group of individuals to ever work from home. One of the things that we had to pivot very quickly, was getting that group of individuals acclimated with signing in remotely to do their jobs. That required a huge effort from myself, at the time I was an infrastructure engineer, but because of my desktop background, I helped lend a hand in prepping over 85 laptops for these individuals, because they were currently working off desktops that never left the building. So, within a matter of four or five days, a group of five of us put in at least 80 extra hours over a week's time combined, to get the laptops prepared for our customer service representatives to take home with them, so they could still continue to work.
Dave Kagle:
I'm proud to say that, because of our hard work and our ability to pivot quickly, and some backend processes that I had a hand in setting up, we were able to pretty much flawlessly set up those devices for those individuals. They were able to stay home, sign in, continue working and supporting our customers throughout the country. So, just something to think about. If you're an individual who still was lucky enough to be able to continue to work from home during the pandemic, I would say definitely want to thank your IT support staff. I know colleagues at one of the larger Fortune 500 companies. They all worked 100 hours a week for two weeks to prepare the business.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Wow.
Dave Kagle:
To get ready for the pandemic. I know working with the state, they were almost in the same boat. They hadn't prepared for half the people to work from home, so they quickly had to pivot and implement the VPN access for individuals. Also tighten security around authentication. The hot buzz word right now is called multifactor, or two factor. So, they quickly had to roll that out and also upgrade the instant messaging application company wide, to allow people to communicate better. So, a lot of things, a lot of changes very quickly to the ability to help people work from home. I know, as far as information security goes, that also made the InfoSec staffs across everywhere I know, just even more heightened on making sure things were done the right way. So, now you have multiple teams, multiple individuals working from home. Now, you have to worry more about, make sure all your authentication's good, make sure your backend systems are good. So, it was a huge lift.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Yeah. For maybe some of our non-tech individuals, some of what you discussed might be a little bit foreign or different, I think can still respect the fact that whatever department, whatever individual was doing what they were doing, which in this case was you and your staff and your colleagues, that having a safe environment, whether you're working in the office or whether you're working from home, or whether you are traveling somewhere and picking up potentially a Starbucks wifi, and all those types of things that us as individuals were looking for. The fastest, quickest, easiest, just get it done for the cheapest amount of money. Unfortunately, sometimes happens with organizations. So, I think that some of the people, if not all the individuals can respect that.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Not only from the work perspective, but from different breaches and hacks that have happened to potential stores and restaurants. If you have certain credit cards with certain stores. The one that comes to mind was a while back was Target. So, many individuals, many customers' information was passed along to a hacker. So, while understanding what goes on behind the scenes doesn't really come to the forefront, it comes to the forefront when something actually affects you. So, for our listeners, that might be a way to identify with what Dave is talking about.
Dave Kagle:
I actually know what caused that Target hack. Something that most people might not even think about is your air conditioning system. So, Target had... A computer was controlling, it was either an exhaust system or air conditioning or heat, but a computer was controlling it. The company, at least from what I read, the company who manufactured this product, never thought that it could be compromised. So, there were no security factors put in. Unfortunately, some bad actors as we call them in the IT world, aka hackers, got into the system and wreaked havoc as everybody saw. So, just some insight for everybody.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Absolutely. Then really talking about, also on the work side of things, of how the pandemic affected just individuals working, and how hours may potentially have increased because, "Well, I'm working from home and the computer screen is much closer to me. So, I'll just check my emails, or I'll just work on a couple extra things." Have you seen, and what's your experience with either yourself, as we pivot a little bit into the mental health and the total health of the individual, not just from, okay. We want the individual to do well in the workplace, whatever that is. If that's in the trades, if that's in the office, if that's in the factory, if that's on the front lines, whatever that may be. Health, I think, especially from my perspective, and I think you'll agree that, while money is a driver from a salary perspective, that at a certain point we hopefully get to the point myself, took 36 years to really get to that point.
Justin Alan Hayes:
But to be able to really just take everything, not just the work that has to get done, but, okay. Am I being additionally stressed? Am I working more hours? Am I being asked to do more things? So, while the money might be great, I'm putting in all these extra hours, which could potentially negatively impact my own health or the health of really our families. Because how we talk to our family members and speak with them, can come across as negative and harsh. Can you step into that a little bit?
Dave Kagle:
Yep. So, for what I do, that's a double edged sword for me. I enjoyed the aspect of being able to still work from home, but I have had situations come up where the manager I worked for was less respectful of personal time, because that individual knew that we could just get on and jump on a call, or be available to look at anything almost any time, because of being able to work remotely. So, it was one of the challenges that I faced at one of my roles, was just being up late at night working on things, or the expectation of just because it was five o'clock didn't mean I got to hang it up for the day. You need to stay on or you need to keep working through, so that's been my perspective.
Dave Kagle:
I know speaking with other individuals, the hard part is unplugging, having that hard stop or taking those mental... Whether it's an actual lunch break or just mental breaks that you normally would, where I know one of the things I used to do when I worked in the office was I'd get up and I'd walk. I'd purposely walk to the cafeteria to refill my water bottle, just because it was a little bit further away from my desk. It gave me a little bit longer just to unwind and think about things I was doing. Also, just look outside. I mean I know one of the issues I have with mental health, with working from home all the time is, I sit in my basement, and it's dark, it's cold, and there's not a lot of light down there. So, just taking that time during the day, even if you are home, just to walk upstairs, look outside, take a quick walk, to go get the mail or walk down the block a little bit. Those are the things I encourage anyone to do. Just to keep things healthy in that work from home space.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Yeah. I mean really in that case, it's just changing that perspective, just taking the screen time with your eyes and changing that environment. Even if it is just being outside and looking at the trees or seeing the grass or seeing the snow, seeing the sun, whatever that may be. Just have some time, whether it's scheduled or unscheduled that you do. You take some time away from the screen, because we all either know, or we should know, that the screen's always going to be there. But if we're not able to continue on and our life is lost, due to some health concerns, that extra stress of checking and rechecking of what I've learned through my therapy, of rumination, of the thinking about the same thing over and over and over and over again. Like I better check that email, I'm expecting this email, or my boss is expecting me to give an update and I haven't sent that update.
Justin Alan Hayes:
So, let me just go ahead and send it. So, for our listeners and our viewers out here, that are with us today, and then will be catching our audio podcast in the future, it's not that these tasks per se are super complex, such as checking an email or other things. It's just the mere fact that us, as individuals, that we just have, in our head and I've been guilty of it. I even went all the way back to an old school flip phone at my mental health crisis, and just trying to get back to zero, because I found, among other things and challenges that I was going to at the worst of it for me, the screen time, just checking this and checking that, and then having multiple emails. So, having a work email, then having a business email, and then having the different email addresses and things just can get real complex real fast.
Justin Alan Hayes:
They're just things that we need to do as individuals, whether a loved one or loved ones are on board with it, or not, there might just be times that we just need to step out and get some fresh air, or just unplug and do something. So, it might seem a little bit out the ordinary, but just from an unplug and having the eye strain of checking the screens and having that blue light exposure, which as my listeners and viewers know, I commonly wear, like I have today, blue light blocking glasses that reflects a large portion of the blue light that comes from the screens, which can impact our sleep. So, if I'm up at 11 o'clock, check an email, it takes our brains a little bit of extra time to unwind after that last check, because of that blue light stimulation of the brain.
Justin Alan Hayes:
So, for me, having that happen, getting to bed later, having my body shut down and into that rest mode a little bit later, and then continuing to get up early for work or for projects, whatever that may be, it was burning the candle on both ends of, okay. Well, I end up staying up later. My body is in that focus mode of, well, you just checked an email five minutes ago, and now you want to go to bed. I don't think so. So, Dave's perspective is perfect of, take some time away from the screens. The screens are always going to be there. There's always going to be a new iPhone, a new droid that comes out. The software's going to get updated. The apps are going to be updated. Those things are going to continue. As the saying goes that, if your cup or my cup isn't full or even half full, then we can't take our time and energies to help others.
Justin Alan Hayes:
So, take that into mind that sometimes it might come across as being selfish to maybe friends and loved ones, of like, wow. They're being just really selfish about things. That a lot of times, and especially what I've learned, it's more just that unplugging. It's not that negative vibe, but sometimes that negative vibe can be felt from others. So, let's jump into, Dave, you changed jobs twice during the pandemic. Can you just talk about a little bit of the background and then how potentially that job search, the interviews went, versus a non pandemic time?
Dave Kagle:
When the pandemic started, the company I was working for unfortunately just hit some tough times, and we went through some major staffing changes, as a lot of individuals probably had the same thing happening where they worked. So, I made the decision to pursue another opportunity. The biggest difference was COVID. No in-person interviews whatsoever. So, the application process really hadn't changed that much, but the interview process had drastically changed. I did a video interview for the position. I had multiple video interviews with multiple individuals, multiple companies.
Dave Kagle:
So, how do you have proper business etiquette when it's a video? That was something I had to really think hard about. Hand placement position, where my eyes were, who do I focus on? What's in the background? What room are you in? Is the wifi on the device you're using good enough? Should I use my phone? Should I use a computer? Should I use a built in webcam on a laptop? That worked for me as I ended up just buying a Logitech 1080P webcam with a built in microphone. I hooked it up to my desktop computer, which is in my basement, and I blurred the background and no one had an issue with that. One of the big changes that I noticed, at least with video interviews, a lot of the interviews that I was on, the business formal attire that I would normally expect.
Dave Kagle:
So, I was coached years ago, if you're interviewing for a position, no matter what it is, you should show up wearing a suit and tie, or at least shirt and tie, or at least ask just before you show up. The formality of some of the attire changed some. I respectfully at least wore a shirt and tie in the visible field of the video. I checked with the HR rep, but a lot of the associates that interviewed me were just wearing T-shirt and jeans. They kept it a lot more casual than I would expect. It didn't really make the interview feel any different from a technical standpoint, they still hit me hard with technical questions about the roles I was applying for. So, that aspect, it actually helped me feel a little more relaxed, because it was more conversational, versus sitting in a room full of people. It was a little bit easier for me to deal with video, because I could at least see...
Dave Kagle:
It was easier to keep track of people's facial expressions or body language a little bit on the video, because I could just quickly glance at the screen rather than trying to focus my eyes on every individual in the room. So, yeah. I interviewed via video. Was lucky enough to get one position. I didn't meet my manager in-person at all. It was only through video and phone calls, same thing with human resources. I was interviewed by a manager and a vice president over video, and then phone interview with HR and I was offered the job and accepted the job without ever physically meeting anyone. Which was really different, and showed that maybe we need to pivot this way for certain people in certain positions, just to... It should be focused on the person, the best person for the role, regardless of certain situation. I did have to go on site for onboarding, but with COVID protocols. So, that was also very different. Showing up that first day in a building where hardly anyone was there.
Dave Kagle:
It was essentially new hires, a skeleton crew, technology support person or people and security, that welcome to the team you would expect. Or I know some companies that actually put new hires names in the lobby, welcome aboard, happy first day, those kind of gestures, they just weren't there anymore. So, it was definitely weird going in, getting equipment, attending some HR, being on video HR onboarding in the office, because all the HR staff was still at home. Then immediately going home and starting to work. Fast forward 11 months, I had an opportunity to pursue a role with the state, something that I'd actually wanted to do for a long time.
Dave Kagle:
So, same thing. It was also done via video interview. I had no in-person interviews for that position. It was actually one video interview with about six people, and then a phone interview with the CIO, and then HR called me and offered me the position and I accepted over the phone. So, very similar process. But also done over video. So, yeah. It was totally different. But at the end of the day, I think everyone that I've been with can agree that I think it's helped. It's helped managers really, really pick people based on the person not, oh, well. They wore a color suit I don't like. Or, maybe they forgot to iron their shirt, or they hit traffic and they were late or something along those lines. So, I think it's helped certain companies identify good candidates.
Dave Kagle:
It also takes that aspect of, as long as you remember your reminder on your calendar, you're not going to be late for your interview. You don't have to worry about sitting in traffic. I know one of the challenges I always had when going to in-person interviews was the temperature of my car. Wearing a suit and tie and you're interviewing in the summertime, you can get nervous and get hot in the car. I never liked to just be too uncomfortable and too hot. Now, you don't need to really worry about that anymore.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Just want to let you know about our upcoming Voices for Voices, A Brand New Day event, which is our annual gala event. It's on October 12th at 7:30. For those that are in the Northeast Ohio area, it's going to be held at the Canton Cultural Center and tickets are $20 and all the proceeds go towards the Voices for Voices organization, which is also a 501(c)(3). Dr. Jessica Hoefler is going to be one of the ... I call it the blockbuster speakers, but one of the three individuals that's really going to talk a lot about what she's talked about here with us today and really just that thought of A Brand New Day, kind of like with Piper's Key, of unlocking and setting her free, that's with Voices for Voices and with the brand new day event specifically.
You'll want to share experiences of real everyday people, not celebrities, just people that are going through and have gone through some traumatic things, whether that is mental health related, whether that is anything really traumatic. So it doesn't have to be mental health related. That's how I started the organization, but obviously as I'm learning and want to have a broader reach, that individuals with mental health challenges aren't the only individuals that have gone through traumatic experiences. So again, Dr. Jessica Hoefler will be one of the blockbuster speakers. We're also going to have Brian Laughlin, who is a lieutenant at the Twinsburg Fire Department. Then one of my actual former students, James Warnken, he is an online specialist with expertise and search engine optimization and data analytics and he's actually legally color blind. So he goes through certain software packages to be able to do the work for his businesses now. Even when he was my student at Walsh University, there were some I guess, accommodations, accessibility, things that he was able to do.
So really not only from a spectrum of age range, but from first responder to somebody in education, traumatic, male, female, that we are all going through and have gone through things and I really want with A Brand New Day is to talk about not just some of the tough times, but how the message of a particular mission and vision is living on and how it's touching and reaching and helping more people. So again, you can find out more about A Brand New Day at voicesforvoices.org, or you can go to Eventbrite, which is the official event platform to put events together, and you can search A Brand New Day and then you'll find the event tickets there. Then you can join us in person. We'd really love to have you and bring a friend, a family member, somebody that would like to be uplifted.
So it’s not just the speakers, we're also going to have a special needs band, RockAbility, going to be playing. So some real rock music. So some of these individuals are going to be playing real live instruments with some mentor musicians and everything from the music. It's all going to be played live, in person. We're not going to use auto tune like some of the music today, and even the singers, the vocals, are going to be done. So it's going to be a lot of fun. We hope you'll make plans to join us and you'll see more on this coming up on our social media pages, the Voices for Voices on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, wherever you consume content, as well as future podcasts.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Yeah. Perfect. Now, are there any specific tips? So, understanding the information technology, that field can be complex to some individuals. But from a preparation for the interview, are there any tips or processes that you do that ha has helped you? That you think that regardless of our viewers or listeners, where they go, things that can help them to really dovetail on top of organizations, which is what I believe and what I talk to my students on. How the House of You and Voices for Voices, I operate that is. Organizations want to hire, and not just the person that has the skills, they want to hire brands. So, I spend a lot of time talking about personal brands. So, it doesn't matter, again, if you're going into the trades, if you're going to the factory, if you're going to the military, if you're going the office, that what you do from the time you wake up to the time you can go to bed, your posts on social media, emails, your resume, your LinkedIn profile, all those types of things.
Justin Alan Hayes:
So, I'm glad to hear from you, Dave, that it sounds like at least in your experience, what you're finding so far with this shift we're in, to remote interviews and remote work, that managers and HR reps, they're hands are being forced a little bit, but I think in a good way, to hire individuals based off of their merit. Not just, again, like you mentioned, if they wore a color suit or a color necklace or a perfume or cologne that smells good to one interviewer and not to another. So, yeah. Would you be able to just jump into some tips that you would like to give? Especially to our, I mean I say this as a 40 year old, to maybe some of our younger audience here on Facebook Live. But then also for the audio podcast might be listening, to try to want to pick up real life things like, okay. Talked about a lot of good things, but how can I act on maybe a couple of those?
Dave Kagle:
Yep. So, the tips I would give, especially if you're doing a video interview for the first time, still make sure you have a professional presence about yourself. Like I said, think about the room that you're going to take the interview in. What's in the background, is there any noise that could potentially interrupt the interview? Are you going to be sitting down or are you going to be standing up? Is there a potential you may need to move around the room? Then you need to think about... I know that there's been a lot of commercials and things where, suit and tie up top, and then shorts on the bottom. Which, if you know that they're not going to see you from the waist down, it's okay. But maybe dress in your full business professional or business casual attire, whichever the HR rep has told you is acceptable for the interview. Make sure if you do have notes, that they're just bullet points, because they'll still be able to see you reading from the notes, even if it's video versus in-person.
Dave Kagle:
One thing that I would suggest is, even though you have your screen in front of you, try not to rely too much on online resources to try to answer questions, because they're going to be able to figure out that you're trying to Google an answer. It's very hard to be sneaky with a keyboard and a screen to try to nail a question that you think might separate you. So, just like you would in person interview, be honest and upfront. I've always told, to every interviewer that I know, there's things I don't know, and the reason I don't know is because I just haven't been able to figure it out yet, or haven't had the resources to be able to learn that skillset. But I always tell them, I'm willing to learn. I think that's always a good tip, is if you do get a question you're not sure, be honest about it. But don't be afraid to tell them that you're willing to learn that skill or take a class, or do a training to figure out that skill.
Justin Alan Hayes:
That's so important, that honesty of, here's who I am. Here's what I've done. Here's what I would like to experience. Yeah. There's things that I don't know, and maybe there's some things that I've done that might be different than what the interviewer is like. Wow, this individual has started businesses and they've written books and they're doing all these things. So, that might be looked at maybe negatively that, oh, this individual's going to come in and not have enough time to work on the job. Their attention isn't going to be able to be as focused. Then getting to that confidence of how we feel about ourselves as individuals of, there's going to be anxiety, there's going to be stress around the interview process. That's just one of those things in life that happens, it's just going to happen.
Justin Alan Hayes:
It's, I guess, part of what makes us human. But the way we can combat that a little bit, of what questions am I going to be asked? If we're just upfront and straightforward with the interviewers about our experience, and not try to sugar coat it, again, if you get an offer and there's that match that you're feeling, that good vibe, then that's good. If you don't get an offer, then there's a reason why that didn't work out, for whatever reason. That might be something that you see that day, that might be something that maybe six months or a year down the road, you're like, "Wow. This was a really crappy experience that happened, but it actually led me to give me an opportunity to do those types of things."
Justin Alan Hayes:
So, I think for the individuals out there, just be true to yourself and believe in yourself, then that'll give off that positive vibe, that positive electricity that we all have running through our bodies, that will come off as, okay. This is a person, they feel strongly and they're passionate about themselves and what they've done, and what they want to do. That's going to come across. Then at the end of the day, you look in the mirror and say, "Am I happy with how this interview process went?" Whether you get the second interview or you get the job offer, or not. It's all about, how do we move forward? How do we just continue to network? How do we just keep continuing our processes, so that we're continuing to build that personal brand. So, then when opportunities come along, maybe in an unposted position that you find out about, because you're at an industry conference, and you meet somebody at the lunch table and they happen to work for a firm you've wanted to work for. That individual knows that some individual might be leaving the organization or retiring or being promoted.
Justin Alan Hayes:
That job hasn't been posted yet. Those types of things, if we keep that personal branding, that mindset, I think that's going to be helpful. Before we run out of time we definitely want to get to this aspect. So, not only is Dave a very seasoned, very educated, very well versed individual. He is also a family man. That comes with having now a child that has been diagnosed as autistic. So, I want Dave to share with our viewers and our audio audience that will listen in the future, about what that experience is like. How he feels society looks at that diagnosis, and those types of things. It's real life that is happening today, and it's happened during the pandemic. So, all these additional stressors, these additional maybe points of trauma that add up like, wow. We're in a pandemic. Oh, changing job. Oh, son, and having these things that just really add up. So, definitely want Dave to jump in and share with our audience.
Dave Kagle:
So, my youngest was diagnosed right after he turned two, or right before he turned three, with autism spectrum disorder. Once again, something else during the pandemic that happened. That was one of the more stressful times in my life. I don't want to use the word traumatic, because as he's grown and we've learned so much from him, I don't see the diagnosis as a traumatic experience anymore. I think that it's a trauma, but not traumatic in a negative sense. It's just more of an, okay. This is how my child is now. I need to figure out how to be the best parent advocate for them and move forward. But we had a lot of challenges. We noticed his behavior and some things that changed. My wife and I wanted to do everything we could.
Dave Kagle:
What I will encourage all parents is, you know your children. You know them best. So, do what you think is necessary to fight for them, and advocate for them. Sometimes you may or may not run into medical professionals who are willing to help. We had some challenges getting our son seen, or even an appointment scheduled to even discuss maybe he does have ASD. We're not sure. There's a lot unfortunately, in the state of Ohio, there is some red tape that you have to deal with. There aren't very many facilities that will give an ASD diagnosis. A lot of it has to do with where you live. I'm lucky enough I live in the state capital, so we have a lot more resources as far as going somewhere. But for those of you out there who live in a different state or even a different country, it might be a lot harder for you. Or if you live in a more rural area of your state, your resources might be limited, just because it's just not something that's a priority to the local governments.
Dave Kagle:
But we had an appointment with him, and they diagnosed him over a Zoom call. I can tell you, from my perspective, that it was a tough day for our family. But yeah. Having that happen over Zoom, it just felt really odd. But at the same time, once we learned, okay. Our son is autistic. Where do we go from here? What we've always decided to do as parents, my wife and I, we lead by his example. Some people may say, "Well, therapy's the only option," or, "There's other treatment options." We've taken the approach of, we're going to let our son... Go by his example. We were lucky enough through a program with our local county, we got him into a school that specializes with working with children who are autistic, and it's been great.
Dave Kagle:
That's one of the benefits of living in a more populated, larger area, I will say. So, our son, he does get speech and occupational therapy, but it is through his school. Other than that, we want him to be a kid. So, we don't want him in therapy all the time, but at the same time, do what you feel is right as a parent. Like I said, you know your children best. But, yeah. It's been one of those just life challenges and just everyone out there, if you find yourself just... If you just feel in your heart, in your gut, your child needs help, do everything you humanly possibly can, even if there are roadblocks.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Yeah. Beautifully said. I think Dave's experience now with his son is very similar in that, at a macro level of, in the workforce, you take information. You take information from people you meet, friends, family members, professors, coaches, pastors, priests, whoever your circle of influences. Then do the different searches online, and then get the medical community to give their input. But just as an individual would get ready for an interview, or for starting a new position, new job, of taking information from a broad scope of individuals and organizations, and methods. Same thing with this situation with Dave. Him and his wife, they're taking the approach of, our son is going to guide us. Yeah. We're going to reach out to the different options, but we're going to let him guide it.
Justin Alan Hayes:
So, where he's at today might be where he's at in 20 years, maybe where he is at today is not where he is at in 20 years. But regardless, who cares? Let him tell the family, through the actions and what I call the voice of... Whatever that voice is, to let the individual share that and let them help guide whatever process that is. But then to take all those bits and pieces in that tool belt of, okay. We're going to look at everything at the broad level, but we're going to take a piece here, a piece there. Okay, well, I have these beliefs, so we're going to take a piece there. Again, make it your own.
Justin Alan Hayes:
I'll bring it back here to close us out, from my mental health crisis of, me individually, big thing was being a guy, not wanting to accept, oh, I have a mental illness. Therapy and medication, and all these things are being thrown at me. I really didn't know how to really react when all of it was happening. So, that meant that people around me didn't know 100% how to act, because I didn't know how to act when things really came from the diagnosis level. So, everybody's just clicking that learning phase. So, I've learned in that four years of still being on that journey of recovery, of taking information from my therapist, my psychiatrist, colleagues that I work with, friends, family members, and really just making it work the best that it can for me at the current time. There's going to be good days.
Justin Alan Hayes:
There's going to be bad days. But again, just pull information from multiple sources, get multiple perspectives. Like with my students, I try to get as many guest speakers throughout the term, so my students don't just hear from me. That they're able to hear from other individuals of, "Here's my experience." So, the students are able to really pull those things and take a bit and piece from here, and there, and really help mold themselves. So, I think that's really the takeaway that I would like to provide for our viewers across the world, our listeners across the world. Really just want to thank Dave for sharing, I mean, some deeply personal experiences across using the spectrum, across the different extremes of the work side of things and then getting into the super personal. Maybe you just want to share just a final takeaway for our viewers and our audience.
Dave Kagle:
Yep. I guess what I would like to just encourage everybody to do is take care. It's a little cliche, but do what you need to do to take care of yourself sometimes. I know one of the things I do on the work side is, I have quiet time scheduled for work notifications. The people I work with know if it's a certain time of day, these communication methods, I'm not going to check them. So, if you really need me, you can call me on the phone. I'll respond to that, but instant messaging, emails, things like that, this is me time for the family or me time for me.
Dave Kagle:
So, I guess I would encourage everybody, don't be afraid to set some of those boundaries and then if you need to do the same thing in your personal life, do what works best with you and your family. But, yeah. Then the personal side, I just encourage anyone out there who is trying to get help. Don't stop fighting. Unfortunately it may require to look on a much broader scale, may even require a physical move. I know that's not something that's easy for individuals to do, but it's always worth considering. So, just keep fighting. That's all I can say.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Yeah. Thanks so much, Dave, for joining us on the podcast today. Again, we're backstage at the 2022 World Momentum Tour, here at Caesar's Palace. Had the opportunity to have... So, Dave's not only sharing his insight as a professional and as an individual, he's also the best man in my wedding and best friend. So, it's cool to be able to give him an opportunity and a platform to share his story, and how he can help others. That's, at the end of the day, what the goal is, is to help as many people as possible. Hopefully help somebody maybe going through a tough situation, or they may know somebody or a situation might come up into the future. Again, just giving as many perspectives as we can, with the House of You, with Voices for Voices.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Then really, as me and my personal brand of Justin Alan Hayes. Before we go, just want to give a shout out to the Las Vegas Raiders and the NFL for this pretty neat jersey that I was able to get personalized yesterday. Check out the House of You. Okay. Again, this has been Justin Alan Hayes, your host. I want to thank our guest, Dave Kagle, want to thank our audiences across the world that are on our livestream. Want to thank our listening audience that will hear this at a later date.
Dave Kagle:
Thanks, Justin. Appreciate you having me on today.
Justin Alan Hayes:
You're welcome. Thanks so much. For those on livestream, thank you for joining us and we'll catch you down the road.
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