The Voices for Voices Podcast Episode 12 with Guest, Heidi Larew, LPCC-S, LIDC-CS, ATCS Art Therapy Certified Supervisor
Justin Alan Hayes:
Hello, and welcome to The House of You podcast sponsored by Voices For Voices, where we discuss the triumphs and challenges of real mental health journeys. We give ordinary people a platform on which to share their unique perspectives about living with disabilities, experiences in healing and thriving with mental illness, and more. Stay tuned for meaningful and eye-opening chats with me, your host, Justin Alan Hayes Allen Hayes as we share, listen, learn and love fellow human beings as they continue to grow and flourish in their own way. Today, Voices for Voices podcast is grateful to be joined by Heidi Larew Larue. Heidi Larew, thank you for joining the voices for voices podcast.
Heidi Larew:
Thank you for having me. I was so excited to hear from you and I'm just so glad to be here today.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Yeah, thank you so much. For our listeners out there at the outset, the way Heidi Larew and I met was just close to four years ago as I was coming out of, what I refer to as my mental health crisis, where I spend five days inpatient in one of the psych wards at our Akron General Hospital here in the area to find and accept my mental illnesses, and then move forward in a manner that included not only medication and psychiatrists background, but also therapy and therapists, individuals that have background in art and then individuals that don't. How I came to meet Heidi Larew was in one of my ... I believe it was the second group therapy session. So the first one was in the hospital, actually a third, now that I think about it.
Justin Alan Hayes:
First one was in the hospital. The second one was a partial hospitalization program that I was in. Had group therapy there and had an art therapy teacher. Then the third was, how I came into contact with Heidi Larew with art therapy. The interesting part for our listeners is that not only does mental health, as we know, comes in many shapes, sizes, colors, flavors, but we all learn and we all process things a little bit differently. Some of us are more creative, some of us maybe less so. What I found was that I had a creative side or have a creative side to me. It's not Picasso or Rembrandt or Michelangelo, but just that wanting to sit down and whether that's just color with different colors, make different shapes, something that to some people might be very, very basic.
Justin Alan Hayes:
So I went through the therapy, not only just trying to understand myself and what I was going through and how I was going to live kind of day to day, but also wanted to accept all the help and all the resources that were available. So fast forward after that group therapy, where I met Heidi Larew to where we are today, and really a couple months. So we're sitting at the end of 2021, and a couple months ago in October of 2021, my newly formed nonprofit Voices For Voices, we had our first annual brand new day event where we had speakers, individuals that were sharing their own mental health stories and journeys, both in person and even as far as a New South Wales Australia that joined us. We had music from a string quartet in Akron Symphony play with what we believe is the world's first special needs orchestra.
Justin Alan Hayes:
We had a piece of art and, in the future, we're going to have many, many more options. So the thought of Voices For Voices again, is to give people, no matter how they have the ability and want to express their voice, whether it's the spoken word, whether that is through playing an instrument, making art itself, could be body movement like gymnastics or dance. So that's what we're looking for in the future in 2022 and beyond Voices For Voices. So in the preparation of the event we held in this past October, 2021, I was starting to, I guess, advertise, let people know about the organization, the event that was coming up. In LinkedIn, I was doing a search and came across through connections, who I saw was one of my art therapy instructors when I was going through the group therapy, which I found out that I was right and it was one.
Justin Alan Hayes:
So that is Heidi Larew. So when I reached out to her, she had positive feedback about the organization, wanting to attend the event and just wanting to kind of keep in contact and see how things continue with the organization and career wise. So that brings us to today in the recording session for the podcast. I really wanted to bring her on, because I had that personal connection of going through therapy and somebody just really kind, down to earth that has maybe a different ... again, that creative lens, versus maybe a therapist that might be more textbook, that doesn't often use art as a way to connect and to help get through different experiences. So with that, again, Heidi Larew Larue is my guest today. So I was just going to kick it off by letting her just talk through some of her background, and we'll get going from there.
Heidi Larew:
Oh, thank you. So it was so rewarding to hear from you almost four years later, and I was really excited to hear about Voices For Voices and then to attend the a brand new day event. That was absolutely amazing. When I thought about it, even the title Voices For Voices reminds me of the idea of helping someone have a voice. I think that connects so well with art therapy because using art can help someone who might have trouble expressing themselves with words. They might use lines, shapes, colors, they might draw an image, maybe use symbols. Just hearing the title, knowing that we have this thing in common, which is the desire to help people find a voice, it was just really exciting to hear from you. So thank you.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Just want to let you know about our upcoming Voices for Voices, A Brand New Day event, which is our annual gala event. It's on October 12th at 7:30. For those that are in the Northeast Ohio area, it's going to be held at the Canton Cultural Center and tickets are $20 and all the proceeds go towards the Voices for Voices organization, which is also a 501(c)(3). Dr. Jessica Hoefler is going to be one of the ... I call it the blockbuster speakers, but one of the three individuals that's really going to talk a lot about what she's talked about here with us today and really just that thought of A Brand New Day, kind of like with Piper's Key, of unlocking and setting her free, that's with Voices for Voices and with the brand new day event specifically.
You'll want to share experiences of real everyday people, not celebrities, just people that are going through and have gone through some traumatic things, whether that is mental health related, whether that is anything really traumatic. So it doesn't have to be mental health related. That's how I started the organization, but obviously as I'm learning and want to have a broader reach, that individuals with mental health challenges aren't the only individuals that have gone through traumatic experiences. So again, Dr. Jessica Hoefler will be one of the blockbuster speakers. We're also going to have Brian Laughlin, who is a lieutenant at the Twinsburg Fire Department. Then one of my actual former students, James Warnken, he is an online specialist with expertise and search engine optimization and data analytics and he's actually legally color blind. So he goes through certain software packages to be able to do the work for his businesses now. Even when he was my student at Walsh University, there were some I guess, accommodations, accessibility, things that he was able to do.
So really not only from a spectrum of age range, but from first responder to somebody in education, traumatic, male, female, that we are all going through and have gone through things and I really want with A Brand New Day is to talk about not just some of the tough times, but how the message of a particular mission and vision is living on and how it's touching and reaching and helping more people. So again, you can find out more about A Brand New Day at voicesforvoices.org, or you can go to Eventbrite, which is the official event platform to put events together, and you can search A Brand New Day and then you'll find the event tickets there. Then you can join us in person. We'd really love to have you and bring a friend, a family member, somebody that would like to be uplifted.
So it’s not just the speakers, we're also going to have a special needs band, RockAbility, going to be playing. So some real rock music. So some of these individuals are going to be playing real live instruments with some mentor musicians and everything from the music. It's all going to be played live, in person. We're not going to use auto tune like some of the music today, and even the singers, the vocals, are going to be done. So it's going to be a lot of fun. We hope you'll make plans to join us and you'll see more on this coming up on our social media pages, the Voices for Voices on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, wherever you consume content, as well as future podcasts.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Yeah. You're welcome. So do you want to maybe go through some of your experience and in your career?
Heidi Larew:
Sure. So something else that is kind of cool is just the location. I got my undergraduate degree at Malone College, which is now Malone University. So close to you at Walsh. Then I got my master's in art therapy at [inaudible 00:08:15] College, and I continue to have a lot of connections there. That's now called a master's in counseling and art therapy from [inaudible 00:08:23] College. So when people graduate from there, they are able to sit for the counseling licensure as well. At the time when I went through, that wasn't the case, and I got my masters in clinical pastoral counseling from Ashland Theological Seminary. So there's a lot with my faith that's important to me and helping people find meaning. So that relates with that as well. That also helped me get the licensure that I needed at that time.
Heidi Larew:
I've worked in a lot of settings. I started out with two populations that interestingly enough, in my opinion, I wasn't looking to see a lot of change. So I worked with adults that had developmental disabilities and, in many cases, profound mental retardation. So I might see some change, but not like when I worked on the psych unit and I wanted to see fast change, like four to six days, major changes. When I worked with adults with developmental disabilities, I worked there six years and I saw some change, but not that rapid urgent need for it. The other population that I started out working with quite a bit was people with terminal illnesses. So to me, in both those cases, those are people that I want to be present with. That's really important to me is just being present with people.
Heidi Larew:
So that ties in also with Voices For Voices, helping someone find a voice. Then later, I had my work in psychiatry and that was helping people experience rapid change in their mental health so that they would want to live again in many cases. So, that's some of my background. I continued to work for Akron General. I worked there for 16 years, 11 on the inpatient psychiatry unit and then five working in a program that emphasized dialectical behavior therapy and also acceptance and commitment therapy, both which in my opinion, combined well with art therapy. After that, I took my current position, which is with Alta Care Group and I am so proud to work there. I work in Mahoning County. My goal is to get more and more art therapy out to the Mahoning Valley that is in combination with the Mahoning County mental health and recovery board support, and the Helms foundation provides art materials and equipment for a lot of our programming. So, that's where my journey has taken me.
Heidi Larew:
Then when I heard from you, it really caused me to reflect on what's been going on in my life and my career in the last four years. Since the last time I saw Justin Alan Hayes, what happened? What happened was my shift from the Akron and Cleveland area to the Mahoning Valley area. So when I started out there, I just thought I had some big goals and so much happened because a pandemic occurred, I guess, like eight months later. You would think that it would create a lot of obstacles and it did, but it also provided us a lot of opportunities. I guess that's not really how I want to say that. Well, I guess through the development of teletherapy, that was huge.
Heidi Larew:
So we started to send teletherapy kits out to the homes. Interns came from the Cleveland area out to Youngstown. So at this point we have myself, I'm an art therapy supervisor, and then we have a full-time art therapist and we have four interns, art therapy interns at Alta Care Group. So to me, that's just really exciting that, in a little over two years, we've done that much. I can't believe that Alta Care Group has been so supportive of it. It's absolutely wonderful. I'm really excited to reflect on this and be like, wow. Since I saw you last, a lot has happened.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Yeah. When you do see that change, even if it's small change or large change, just getting into kind of the emotional side of things, how does that make you feel? I guess, what made you want to get into art therapy kind of in the first place and what keeps you in interested and engaged?
Heidi Larew:
I think just that I love artwork and I love ideas is what really drew me into it. So I love to think about all the different ways that people think. The mind, that's very interesting to me. You had sent me some ideas of what we might talk about. So I got to thinking about it and I thought, well, my mother was a nurse working in psychiatry and my father was always interested in ideas. We always had things sitting around. I don't know if it's like this anymore, but psychology today was a magazine that sat on the table. I know now that it's on the internet. I don't know if you can get it in magazine form anymore, but I grew up reading that sort of thing and being interested in that. So that really drew me in, and I think that I was kind of the shy art girl. I can remember sitting on the bus, doing art and it seemed like there would always be someone that would come sit by me that might not have someone to talk to. I don't know, that just feels natural, like that has been part of who I am and what I've done.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Yeah, no, that's good. I'm glad you shared that. And especially for our listeners, or just to hear different feedback. Again, with this being Voices For Voices podcast, and we're also going to tie in the workplace as well in this conversation. So it's going to also be available with the House of You podcast as well, where we really want to bring mental health to the forefront with the workplace. So to really just hear that background of somebody that has that really creative aspect of themselves, because myself, I'm not inclined. My wife is more, I guess, action oriented, creative inclined with doing different arts and crafts as far as the family goes.
Justin Alan Hayes:
So even just for me to hear the background, it is helpful because I'm used to hearing business backgrounds and marketing backgrounds. So it's refreshing to hear different type of a background and then how it ties into an area that I now am kind of engage myself with with my mental health and in recovery. About mental health and recovery and how it ties into art therapy, can you talk just a little bit about maybe that correlation?
Heidi Larew:
You know how it can just feel good? You don't have to be an artist and it can just feel good to see that something that you had in your hand came kind of out of you, using paint and seeing it go onto the canvas. There's so much with that would even connect with the idea of being mindful, being present. Then seeing that I did that. So it doesn't have to be beautiful, no certain way. There's so many other materials you can use. You can use sculpted materials, you can be present with the scent, the scent of clay, feeling the firmness of it.
Heidi Larew:
Then there's times that a person could use art to represent a feeling, to sculpt it, to paint it, to draw it. It's about the process of the doing of it, and then also the meaning. There's so many different settings and ways that it's used. So you might use it with children. You might use it with adults, people on dialysis, maybe people with medical issues in the hospital. It can be done inside. It can be done outside with murals. There's so many ways. It's important to me to get to know the person in front of me, the way they think, and then help them find their voice in a way through the art that they might not have without that medium in front of them.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Yeah. It's not about perfection. It's just about doing what feels right. Really, I know for me knowing that I'm not artistically inclined, of just seeing that start and that end, just having that finality, whatever that is of what I started with. Might this be a piece of paper, could be magazines being put together and colors, put together into a collage, into a certain shape, really just seeing that start and finish. So the perfection isn't really isn't attainable in a whole lot of aspects, but in this aspect really just [inaudible 00:18:37] starting in. It's like some shows, a song. A song has a beginning and then an end. It starts and then it's done. Either another song plays after it, or there's a pause between another song.
Justin Alan Hayes:
So I think that tarp might have started to just a resonate of having that start an end point. Then I even just felt myself and can take myself back to Heidi Larew's class during the group therapy. I guess I'd heard different ways of talking about it, but visually. People think visually or more contextually, of more of concepts of here's a word and here's the definition. And others might see a picture and have that be how somebody remembers. I know with a lot of my students, that's how it seems to be. One type of a student thinks and learns and studies one way. Another, if we're talking about a process, if there's five steps in the process, one individual might just write each of the steps down on a note card and study the definition. Whereas an individual might refer back to a particular slide that had all those steps in the process in class and then process things that way. So if they see that on an exam, say, okay, what's the third step of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, or something that manner that their mind reflects in a visual nature versus kind of that flashcard in succession nature.
Heidi Larew:
Yeah. So when you were describing that, it reminded me of when ... I don't know exactly what it was you said, but something there reminded me of the idea that you're creating something. Then there's two ways I feel like describing this. One is when you're a little kid, and I guess everybody's different with this, of course, but almost like ... Did you ever go through that thing where you might be in the swimming pool and you're doing a handstand and you keep saying, Hey mom, look?
Justin Alan Hayes:
Yeah.
Heidi Larew:
Look what I can do. So I know that seems really childlike and innocent and that kind of enthusiasm, but with an art therapist witnessing what you're doing, it can have that same kind of feeling sometimes, like that type of youthful vulnerability and joyfulness, but also sometimes it's having someone witness pain to see you're going through this process. Then also, you're not going through it alone. It's almost like, okay, so the words give you a voice in a way, but the art gives you a voice in another way and it can feel like somebody got it.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Yeah.
Heidi Larew:
Like, oh, they get it. I'm not alone in this. Does that all make sense?
Justin Alan Hayes:
It makes a lot of sense. That takes me to another point. I remember this vividly, as if it was today or yesterday, and that five day inpatient day. One of the programs was an art therapy program, a class. When I admitted myself, I didn't know what to expect. I didn't know what was to come. I just knew that I had to accept where I was at and accept the help, whatever, from an expert or medication was part of that. Those are all aspects. But I remember the first morning that I was there at the hospital and the first art class. I got admitted. I think it was like 2:30, 3 o'clock in the morning. So my roommate was already even asleep. So I just knew I had a roommate.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Wasn't sure what was going to happen after that, just process wise. I hadn't been eating. So just from, okay, is my body going to accept food? Am I going to accept this treatment and accept the help that was here? I remember walking into that room and sitting down and seeing other people there, other individuals, other human beings. So for so long, for whatever reason, I felt that I was alone, that I was the only one going through a particular process, a particular anxiety, pent up things that hadn't come to grips with and just accepted. Hey, these are crappy experiences, and then just deal with them and then accept that, okay, I can't change anything here. So I'm just going to accept it, talk through it and move forward. So when I sat down with those other individuals, I was like, okay, I'm not alone.
Justin Alan Hayes:
So that was probably the first step. The second step was when we started that class, we went around and said, hi, my name is Justin Alan Hayes Alan Hayes, and here's why I think I'm here. Hearing the other individuals, their stories, their voice of things that they had been through, I felt that before then, I was like, oh, I've been through some crappy things and nobody's gone through something like this. Then after hearing some of the other experiences, I was like, oh my gosh. I'm definitely not alone. Here are individuals that are even way stronger than I am that they're even here, of having even more near death experiences. So that's the first, I guess, experience with art therapy, all to talk about the group and that you're not alone, that there are others.
Justin Alan Hayes:
So I think there's even just that aspect with taking art out of the equation, whatever you're there to do, that you're there with somebody else or a group of people that are in similar shape as you, some better, some a little bit worse. I think that might be why I had that connection of coming across Heidi Larew's information on LinkedIn and say, Hey, I'll reach out to her and see if this is who I think it is first. Then see if there's an interest to kind of catch up and see what we can do with mental health and art, and how we can, again, just help others.
Heidi Larew:
Yeah. Then it was great coming out to the event in October and hearing the music and seeing the different people speak, just seeing so many other ways. That was just wonderful. Yeah.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Yeah. It was an idea that happened. It was during the pandemic of, I want to do something. I had already written it and published my mental health journey Prescription For Living that's available everywhere in print, audio, electronically, but I didn't know what I wanted to do because my background was really in business. I don't have the counseling background. So I was going through a period of just how else can I impact and help others, something that was bigger than just myself, because I had already put my story out there. That's really how Voices For Voices, as many of our listeners that have followed the podcast, have learned, have found out how Voices For Voices started, but Voices For Voices really was just going to be one event. It was going to be that October event, and then it was going to be an annual event going forward.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Now sitting here today, we have the annual event, but then we're going to add, for the 2022 event, add in some gymnastics. We're going to add in through my church group. There's an individual in my group, he is a Lieutenant in the local fire department who's gone through mental health challenges him himself and is going to be retiring. He wants to give back to his community, so he's going to be talking and along with his wife about having a spouse first responder, of seeing things and hearing things, and how to really help themselves. The special needs orchestra Hearts For Music's going come back and play. Then the individual, my church group, his son's band plays different gigs around the area. So they're going to, if all pans out how it started to pan out, we're early in the process, but they're going to play a few songs as well.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Some uplifting rock, country, some music as well as the individuals telling their story. The thing that I had to even grapple with was there's other organizations that are helping the mental health space. So I was thinking myself, well, I want to be independent. I want to do my own thing and I want to help everybody. You want the other organizations to succeed, but it was like this huge competition. Then someday, I don't know which day it was, but I came to this revelation, Hey, we're all working and helping people. So I reached out to the National Alliance of Mental Illness in Summit County and had them on an earlier podcast that our listeners will have heard. They're going to be joining in some way. We're not sure what the partnership's going to look like, but just getting their name and their involvement as well as other local organizations.
Justin Alan Hayes:
So it's just a big change. Then obviously having a podcast to be able to have an avenue to have people sharing their voices. I think our listeners are going to be going to be happy, and definitely reach out if there are other avenues that we can help out and do. So right now, the main ones are the October, kind of the main event, the podcast. Then we're going to start, we're calling meetups where each month.
Heidi Larew:
Wow.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Some of us are just going to, from Voice For Voices on the board, meet through either Zoom or Facebook live. We're trying to figure out the medium, and literally just log in and just talk about kind of what's going on in life and see how that goes. Then we're going to obviously continue and share and spread the message. But all this kind of goes back to, I was at my lowest point and I came into contact with Heidi Larew. I equate that to the organization of Voices For Voices. It started one way as one event, and now it's evolving. So for all those listeners out there that are either in the middle of something, and they might have hit a roadblock, or even like, oh, I don't have the time to do this. Or maybe a family or loved one or a friend is like, oh, don't do that. But if you really feel that what you're doing is important and matters, to go forward and do that.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Not only you look at yourself at the mirror at the end of the day and are you're happy with what you're doing, but I try to think about at least in my situation from four years ago with my mental health crisis. What can I do to help others that is bigger than me, that, okay, I'm only one life, one human being. So there's going to be a day when I'm not alive on earth, but hopefully there are people that have been impacted positively that are contributing in positive ways to the community and in the bigger world. So that's where my mind in my vision's at. So if you're out there and you're working towards something, if something seems it's not working, but that's something that you're really passionate about and obviously is legal to do, then please, please go ahead and do that. Sometimes you have to ignore some of the naysayers, because even look at celebrities, influencers, entertainers. Not everybody likes every type of person, no matter how popular somebody is. So at the end of the day, do what you need to do.
Heidi Larew:
So out of a lot of pain for you, with your mental health crisis, came this unfolding experience and it resulted in a lot of connection for you, and then interconnection with other people, connecting these different organizations with each other, and then celebration and sharing it with others. That's something that I've been talking to some of my clients and supervisees about recently is, you don't want it to get out of balance, but the idea that helping other people can bring us so much meaning, so much purpose and also improve our mood.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Definitely. I even equate that really to a kind of gratitude of a lot of the things, especially for me ... a lot of stress sometimes is added just by me thinking and overthinking and ruminating, even though I have processes and ways of trying to combat that and mitigate that and make that better, I still sometimes fall into those areas. When you do, just knowing that you can get through that and knowing that you have the ability to really achieve those goals, that situation and experience, a relationship that might have ended sourly, that you can turn those things into a positive. It might be several years. So for me, in this particular part of my journey, it's been four years to kind of get to this point. In many of those days, didn't know if I was going to survive, let alone be at the point where I could share my story or want to, and reveal just personal intimate details with members of my own family.
Justin Alan Hayes:
And in-laws not really a hundred percent knowing at the time things were going on. So it was just a lot of struggle that goes on, and the key is to, again, just stay on point. When you do, again for that, helping others, we have gratitude. I'm grateful for waking up this morning, I'm grateful for the food that was available. I'm grateful for the shelter. Just really trying to get back to that Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Just those basic necessities of a human being. A lot of the stress for me would come from myself in the rumination. If I would start saying, well, I'm grateful for three things today and then three things tomorrow, that's been a practice that I've implemented probably the last year, year and a half, where I do write down three things that I'm grateful for.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Now, some days, a couple of them are similar. So, grateful you woke up in the morning. You hear a story about somebody that passes away that you're close to. Okay, that might seem cheesy and basic, but I can't help anybody if I'm not here. So when I say I'm grateful for that-
Heidi Larew:
Definitely.
Justin Alan Hayes:
... it takes really the focus and put it on paper. I feel that you don't have to buy a book to be able to do that. Just take some loose leaf paper or a notebook and write that out. Or if you want to type it on Excel or a Word file, I've noticed if I'm able to get out on my head for just even a little bit, that's a couple less seconds or a couple less minutes that my mind can't ruminate about myself.
Heidi Larew:
Right. Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah.
Justin Alan Hayes:
So Heidi Larew, where you're at in your career now and what you're doing, how does that look going forward with what you're doing and what you see yourself doing? Are there things and projects that you like to do more of if the opportunity comes along?
Heidi Larew:
Yeah. There's things that I'm already doing, that I just want to keep doing. So I want to keep teaching interns about art therapy, encouraging people in the profession. I want to continue working with individuals and groups doing some program development around day treatment planning, some things around recovery from substance use. So a lot of that, and then I have some dreams.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Yeah, please.
Heidi Larew:
One is to bring more and more art therapy to organizations for employees. So I like that idea of having a place for people to work on their self-care in the context of their employment. Then another one that I'm excited about, that is a dream, but I believe will eventually happen, is mural artwork. So at Alta Care Group, we started out one of the interns painted a picnic table and had the children help her with that. Then we had a courtyard fence that was looking a little bit used, that was looking like something off of Pinterest that was supposed to look retro, except that it really happened that way.
Heidi Larew:
So we had that pressure washed and then three of the interns and some of the clients painted the courtyard fence and they called it the secret garden. Really just, it's absolutely beautiful. You walk into the organization and it just makes it feel alive. Then we did murals on our connector hall that connects two buildings. The hallway is inside, so now it appears to be all one building. We had people from the organization that gave us ideas, different things they wanted to see. So one idea was to have all the seasons. So it shows just that idea of life moving on. So if you go down to one end of the hall, there's fall, and then winter, and then spring. As you go up the connector hall there's summer. We would ask different employees, what would you like?
Heidi Larew:
Someone would say, well, I'd like a waterfall. So looking at it as you walk through the hallway, interns and clients created the artwork, employees contributed to it. So there's a sense of community and this idea of positivity, moving forward, this idea that time changes. Things don't stay the same, and that's a hopeful perspective. So, we had the picnic table, we had the court yard fence. We have the mural. It's getting bigger. This idea that I have is to do murals outside on city walls. I'm not sure how this is going to happen, but it's a dream of mine. I would like to see this tied in with advocacy efforts. So for example, if there was an organization that wanted their theme to be advocated for, and then people who would receive that service could help contribute to the mural, I would love to do that.
Heidi Larew:
I would love to create an image, project it up onto a huge wall, and then have the people who would benefit from that topic contribute to the painting. I'd like to do ... oh, what are those called scaffolding? Is that what you stand on?
Justin Alan Hayes:
Yeah. Scaffold. Yeah.
Heidi Larew:
I'd like to have those and forklifts, and lots of paint and music, and really just have a group celebration. Then whatever the cause is, I'd like it to be on a website. I'm sure there's a term for this. I'm sure people have done this, lots, but I would like to do that for organizations and have them be mental health and social justice related topics. So, that's a dream of mine. In the meantime, I want to do more of what I'm doing. I absolutely love what I'm doing, but this is a dream that I have.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Yeah. Think about having dreams, we all really should, no matter what age, where we're at. I know for me, with the organizations and the books I've written and the people I got to meet and help, that's been something that really ... to have a dream come true. Now I'm able to dream even higher than that and then see how that can go. So things that individuals, if you're dreaming and you achieve that dream, then keep dreaming bigger and bigger. But at least it gives you something to work on. As long as that ties back into who you are as an individual and what you what you want to do and who you want to ... the values and the things that you like, I think that's something that I myself, with Heidi Larew talking about not just hearing me talk about a dream or dreaming in general, that it's not something that's taboo and fantasy that's out there. We really should. We should dream about things that we want to do and how we want to spend our time.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Getting lastly, really to the workplace. Have you seen, whether it's through COVID, pre COVID, an uptick and maybe the reasons why people are in recovery, in therapy more related to workplace of stresses that have happened through the workplace? Or have you seen less? Just trying to get a feel from somebody really on the front lines of the individuals of how the workplace and individuals, how that really ties to mental health and somebody who actually works with individuals on a day to day basis.
Heidi Larew:
So I also work for a private practice, Laura Hoff Stutter and Counseling Associates in Hudson. I would say that in my own experience, I haven't seen people saying more and more that their issues are work related. But I do see the workplace as a place where there could be more support. So for example, let's say you work for a company and you could either go have a smoke break, which I would discourage, or you could go have a lunch break, which is reasonable. But what if you could go and make art on part of your lunch break and it just felt nice, and it didn't have to be perfect. And it was just maybe even once a week for a half hour, and there was an art therapist there doing that.
Heidi Larew:
I don't know the answer to your question because there's so many ways of knowing things. One is anecdotally, what are you seeing? I'm not seeing that, but so much has changed. We know that lots of people are leaving positions, moving around to do different positions. The workplace has changed. Do you wear a mask? Do you get vaccinated? All the stress that people have around the pandemic? I just don't know for sure whether the workplace is the issue, but I think that the workplace could be part of one of the solutions to people's emotional wellbeing.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Yeah. So for all the listeners out there that's something that you feel passionate about wanting to help individuals, that could be an area that you bring value to an organization of wanting to help others maybe in that way, really doing a business planner around what things could potentially lead to more stress and what ways could we potentially lower stress, whether those are kind of just art projects or just art time, that's set aside that there's no judging around like, oh, well, so and so went and did it. And so and so didn't. It's literally the kind of no judgment zone, doesn't matter how great something looks. It's just more that time that their mind can be spent more creatively. Because I can even think of when I was younger. I'm 40 years old.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Thinking that when I was younger, I had all these dreams like, oh, I want to be an astronaut when I grow up. Just having all these things to think about. Then as my life started to unfold and I was starting to bring unhealthy things and people into my life, I had less and less and less time to even think, let alone think about, oh, what would I dream that I wanted to do? Those really went by the wayside and I think, knock on wood or anything really, that my mental health crisis was more of a reset where I could go back to kind of zero or level ground and say, okay, I get a second chance. So what do I want to do? Really have some of that time to really think about. But then not just think about it, but to really put it into action of things with within reason.
Justin Alan Hayes:
So that's something that, again, if you're out there and you're going through that process, if it's a reset, whatever you want to call it, take some time. I think that's the key thing. Just take time away from screens, away from your kind of normal every day where you can just think. Even if those first few times where the only thing that happens in that free time is your mind slowed down just a little bit. Maybe you didn't have time to actually do the thinking, which is sometimes difficult to do at first. I know for me, to throw a personal experience, when I'd be asked to meditate or quiet my mind, usually take yourself to a happy place. Is that the beach or what is that?
Justin Alan Hayes:
So for me, it was the beach. My mind was so guess convoluted that, when I was being asked by whoever to do that, or if I tried to do it on my own, that I always had this shark that was attacking me and I could never get by. I would close my eyes. I'd be at the beach. And then I'd be being chased by a shark. I think that's just another reason that I needed to really just own up and accept kind of where I was at in life and not try to do everything with myself, and Google all the answers and try to do what I thought or what a particular celebrity or what have you might be doing. I needed to really just accept myself and get myself to the point where, if you don't have your cup half full or any full at all, you can't really share and help others with that.
Justin Alan Hayes:
I, for many, many, many years, didn't have ... I don't even know if I had [inaudible 00:48:07] a lot of the times that it was that dire. So I would just say to dream big and go after those dreams. I think art therapy is a great, great way of, if at the very least that you could potentially be around other like-minded individuals. You could quiet your mind just a little bit, that it's not thinking about, I got this email I need to send, I need to finish this project. I can for 15 minutes or half hour, whatever that time is, go to this area and express myself however. I think that just the bare bones of that is the most important thing.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Again, it's not about the perfection. It's not about, Hey, I'm going to post this on Instagram and this is going to be so perfect. I'm going to get all these likes and all these follows. It's just about for yourself. I still have some of the little art pieces that I did at the one group therapy that I had. I look back at it and it's obviously nothing I'm going to put an art gallery, but it's something that I was able to see kind of a beginning and an end. It was time where I could just think about something other than myself.
Heidi Larew:
Yeah. So I feel like there's a couple things I want to mention. Then I'd like to wrap it. I mean, bring it back to what you said a minute ago.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Yeah, for sure.
Heidi Larew:
So the one thing is that I know that you're interested in the career part a lot for people. So if anybody's interested in art therapy, they could look up the Buckeye Art Therapy Association, which is our Ohio group, and then the American Art Therapy Association. Then of course [inaudible 00:50:12] College's masters in counseling and art therapy program. But I was thinking about something you said. Oh yes. I was thinking, art therapy or not, whatever it is, if there's anyone out there ... not just the career part, because of course that's important to me, and that's what I'm doing is helping people get into the career of art therapy and then spread it and program development.
Heidi Larew:
But if there is someone out there who needs help, doesn't matter whether it's art therapy or counseling or social work or seeing a psychiatrist, there is someone out there who will be present with you if you need someone to be with you. If you need someone to sit with you while you cry, or if you need someone to say, Hey, get up and get a shower today.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Yeah.
Heidi Larew:
Or if you need medication, you are not alone. You don't have to be alone. There are so many different services out there. So I just wanted to bring it back to that because I think about some things that you've shared when you had the Voices For Voices event and you shared about your own journey. I just don't want anyone to ever feel like they can't reach out and get help like that. So that's bigger to me than the art.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Oh, for sure.
Heidi Larew:
That's bigger than ... it's the individual that is in need of services. There is someone out there who will help you. If you are going to benefit from someone who asks you questions in an organized manner using a clipboard, or if you're going to benefit from someone who says, let's go outside and paint a wall, there is someone for your style who can help you.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Yeah, absolutely. I'm glad you brought that up. We're at the point now. Has there been anything we haven't covered that you want to make sure that we include?
Heidi Larew:
I don't think so. This has been really nice. Yeah. Thank you.
Justin Alan Hayes:
You're welcome. How can people learn more about you?
Heidi Larew:
You could look up Heidi Larew Larue on LinkedIn or Google me. You could look at Alta Care Groups website. You could look at Laura Hoffsteader and Counseling Associates. Yep. That's how.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Great. Thank you so much, Heidi Larew. It's great to reconnect and to be connected and stay connected and see what we each do and see how that can work together.
Heidi Larew:
Yeah. I look forward to your events this coming year too.
Justin Alan Hayes:
Well, thank you so much, Heidi Larew, for joining the Voices for Voices podcast.
Heidi Larew:
Thank you.
Justin Alan Hayes:
This has been the Voices For Voices podcast. Thank you for joining us. Voices for Voices is a nonprofit group founded to provide a platform for folks to share their stories with others as we work to break the negative stigma around mental health and disabilities. This is a safe place where we share ideas, passions, stories, and lift each other up through any and all challenges we may be facing. I am your host, Justin Alan Hayes, an expert in workforce preparation business professor, author, and career coach. I was inspired to create this nonprofit as a way to lean into my passion for helping others as I explored how to heal on my own mental health journey.
Please donate to Voices for Voices, a 501c3 nonprofit charity today at: https://www.voicesforvoices.org/shop/p/donate
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