The Voices for Voices TV Show and Podcast Episode 47 with Guest, Gail McPeake
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today's guest joining us in studio is an author a suicide prevention Advocate and
nurse Health educator please join me in welcoming to the show Gail McPeake thank you for joining us
thank you, Justin, absolutely so for our audience our viewers our
listeners you may recognize Gail from speaking at our a brand-new day event
last October talking about her son Tom Suicide Prevention
in about some facts that really startled me seeing them especially since
I had a psychiatric hospitalization stay and a couple of those facts are after a
psychiatric hospitalization the risk of suicide is three hundred times greater during the
first week home and two hundred times greater than the first month and so that those
set of facts are provided by the suicide action Alliance and that was a few years
ago so I'm sure those numbers have changed and given the landscape they
may have changed for not the better so what you'll see right here as we
start our conversation with Gail is the book that she wrote the title is
home safe the high risk of suicide after hospitalization for mental illness and
it is about her experience both as a nurse and as a as a mother of her son
Tom who unfortunately at the age of thirty-eight became one of one of those statistics
that we just talked about so Gail thank you for joining us thank you for being an advocate for some money and
sharing Tom his voice as the days
and months and the years go on thanks Just in this is so much important work that you
do and I appreciate this opportunity so my husband my husband my son Tom
was hospitalized in March of 2020 right when the country went into full-blown
lockdown for covid so I wasn't being able to visit him I couldn't do any type
of communication with him other than the shared phone on the unit and I could drop some clothes off in the lobby for
him so he was hospitalized a total of 26 days in March of 2020, and he came home
on April 1st and he died he took his own life 48 hours after discharge
and we were in such shock and all I could keep thinking was How could somebody be treated in a hospital for
almost a month in just 48 hours after they come home die
so I began researching once things settle down a little bit and
found so I did some research I sent for his records which took a long time because you have to go through probate
court so that was an undertaking but anyhow what I discovered was the amazing
statistic that you just quoted and that was from the National Alliance For Suicide Prevention about
the high rate right the first week after and the first month after a person comes
home from a behavioral health unit now my son Tom was diagnosed with schizophrenia, but this statistic holds
for anybody who's in a behavioral health unit in Fort and that includes depression
addiction issues bipolar as well as the serious mental illness like schizophrenia bipolar so it's a really
relevant fact and the shocking thing is Tom had was hospitalized probably
Fifteen times over the 17 years he was diagnosed with schizophrenia until his
death and we were never told this when discharged when he got discharged
because it Alters your way of thinking and the supports you want to be sure are in place right if you knew that the very
first week that person has a three hundred times chance of ending their life so at any
rate I did researched I wrote this book in part to tell Tom's story to honor his
life and also to help the public know what families experience when they help
support someone with a serious mental disorder as well as a cautionary tale
I'm hoping that gets out to a lot of healthcare professionals Hospital staff as well as Community Mental Health
support staff because there's that transition and that's that gap for when a hot person leaves the hospital after
maybe a suicide attempt or severe depression or whatever it is the reason they're in the
behavioral health unit and then they come home and then they have an appointment at their Community Mental
Health provider and that's usually not the very next day so there's this Gap and that's the critical Gap who's
responsible for that Gap is it the hospital is it the community mental health agency well yeah, the Samsa
which is the substance abuse mental health services Administration the National Organization they've put
together guidelines practice best practice guidelines and with a lot like it's 36 Pages uh
well I don't know I'm getting this wrong it's several Pages maybe twenty, but they mentioned family involvement thirty-six times
meaning family should be part of that team and unfortunately in our country we're
not there yet families really aren't that big of a team member once a person's hospitalized and due to HIPAA
which is a good thing HIPAA is unless you have HIPAA releases signed
everywhere families are left in the dark and they need to have that input because oftentimes a person who's going through
a crisis can't think straight they're either delusional or so upset and anxious they can't really think clearly
and that's the role of a family member or their support person to think clearly
and give input and also to help decide how well or unwell that person is and
what level of support they need so
um in the book I cover many things one chapter is on communicating with
families during hospitalization another is screening tools which I want to talk about in a second please
anti-psychotic medications and their side effects because unfortunately that's the treatment that's used and
there are so many drugs and it's not that drugs are bad they're very needed but there's so many side effects it
really becomes a risk benefit Balancing Act suicide ideation that come with
these drugs right and this includes not only the antipsychotic group but antidepressants many come with that the
other chapters in the book are best practices and Care transition things that I believe should be done as well as
things that I read from the national guidelines grief I have a short chapter on Grief
because I wanted to speak to what that is like for family members in my own personal it's always helpful because
it's therapeutic to be able to express yourself even if you know it's just to help you move along you never really get
over losing a person that close to you but you have to find some way to keep going and maybe feel like their lives
Made A Difference by the things you continue to do and then at the end of the book I
have resources of everything you know all the websites you can go to get these various resources
so some of the ideas that I have in from our experience are as I started out
saying is including family members in the discharge planning and evaluation while the person is in a behavioral
health unit prior to discharge so my only input and really any of the
hospitalization because I don't want to just Target that one hospital his last hospitalization it was really no
different any of the hospitals and Tom was in probably every major Hospital in Cleveland
a couple in Summit County Trumbull County and at least three in North
Carolina where he lived with the sister for a couple years, so I visited all of them prior to the covid
um and they're all pretty similar in terms of how they're structured as well as during the hospitalization the input
they want from the family member so the main thing that I was ever asked is do you think he's any better
so when I'm thinking about this after the fact and in my research I I'm thinking like
there must be scientific rating scales that doctors use, and Health Care units and mental health agency use so I found
a lot of different rating scales that are used one's called the brief psychiatric rating scale one's called
the global assessment and I res refer to all of them there are many rating scales and I'm
looking at them and I'm thinking why can't families use something scientific like that you know because they know
best like prior to the hospitalization or right afterwards or during even if
they had access to the person and be able to rate the person how
they're doing in various areas anxiety delusions you know like psychosis
versus their reality based okay and then give that
scientific input to the healthcare team as part of the team right
um but really all I ever was ever asked is do you think he's any better do you see any changes
so that's okay that's but I have to base it on my brief visit or a brief phone call
yeah, so that’s one area is to have okay I'll tell you one example of so
one phone call this is four days prior to Tom's last hospitalization right four
days before he was discharged, and they had notified me that after the weekend you know in like three more days Tom
would be discharged and I said I don't know sometimes he's saying some strange things because first of all you're not
on most Behavioral Health units you don't get to have your own phone like you would if you were in there to have
an appendix removed or diabetes care whatever pneumonia you there's a phone in the on the
wall usually in the unit and they have to go and use it when it's empty at certain times for a certain amount of
time right so the fan you know you wait I worked full time too during most of that
um and so I had to be ready to oh with the phone ring so one of the phone calls four days before time was discharged, he
said he said to me do you know how to change an identity I
want to change my name and social security number when I leave here, I want to get on the bus and go to Oregon and
start a new life I'm afraid the North Koreans are going to capture me and torture me and take me prisoner
okay so that was said to me, and I thought you're going to come home in three days that's very delusional
thinking right and it's scary because one of a family's greatest fears when somebody
has serious mental illness is that the person will leave they'll have some type of delusional thought and want to leave
and I personally know probably two or three families whose loved person left
and they've never seen them since one they got contacted that he was found dead a couple years afterwards but I
mean they totally lost contact with their family member so of course that was our biggest fear especially when
he's I want to get on a bus and yeah so back to this so that's a very delusional
thought and here it is four days before he comes home right so of course I tell them when they say how do you think he's
doing I say I don't think he's a baseline he just said this to me yes last night and they minimize it or they
all will report that but using one example as a team member to
tell so they can rate how he's doing is not enough and it's not scientific it's my guess my whole point in saying that I
believe that having some type of rating scale something simple doesn't have to be complex you don't have to
have a degree of any kind families can understand things because they live it, they know when the person is at Baseline
they know when the person's delusional or it is a reality, they know better than anybody because sometimes people say
wild things that are true right so families might know the second
am I going too fast you're a girl okay so the second area that I think could be improved is notifying families of this
startling fact about the high suicide rate and as I said we were never notified I have four doctors of
psychologists friends okay they spent their careers as psychologists which is very different than working in a
behavioral health unit but you know they have to deal with the realm of the public
and they're all retired now but I asked each one of them did they know the statistic about this high risk
period to be aware of as counselors and also of families being warned of this
none of them knew it not one of those professionals were aware of it so I
thought this is this is something that really needs to get out more now the suicide Coalition put this out in in you
know in their articles in 2019 which isn't that long ago so maybe to their
you know maybe it just was the timing thing maybe that type of study wasn't available at that time, but the point is
I never heard it in my nursing career although I didn't work on psychiatric
eunuchs I worked more in the community health and I and we never heard it as a family
so we couldn't put safety plans in place right so um
we know that as far as the community side of it remember that Gap I was talking about if someone is in the
hospital then they come home and there's that Gap okay by law Most states require
that that Community Health Agency contacts the person who is discharged within 72 hours
and I was reassured of that too when he left, they said well you know his case
manager will be in touch within 72 hours well Tom died 48 Hours afterwards and
actually a mother after my book was out last year read my book and contacted me via email and said I'm a nurse too I
never knew that my son died four hours after being discharged he took his life and so I'm thinking
this is a real need for health care workers not just doctors but nurses
um social workers community mental health workers to know this right so what was Tom's
safety plan when he left the hospital right, I have a copy of it actually here all right you'll see this paper with a
green ink on it so Tom was given a blank form and I'm not criticizing again this was their system he was given a blank
form and a green marker and they asked him to write down a safety plan, so he'd be safe when he went home right so um
it has five steps on it the first step says warning sign excuse me one second a little dry
the first step says warning signs and Tom wrote Can't Sleep anxiety and racing
thoughts all right so he had that self-awareness that those were his warning signs that
he was unsafe step two was your internal coping strategies things I can do to take my
mind off my problems and Tom wrote listen to music make art
now I'll just do a side note here or you may be able to see there's a picture of Tom and then in the front
there’s one of his acrylic fluid he really got into a fluid acrylic painting and then the tree is also a smaller
picture of the baby he loved to paint love to paint so that's the art he was referring to
step three on the safety plan says people in Social settings that provide distraction apparently that was an
important thing keeping safe is providing distraction being with people so what did he write in there there's room for four people he wrote Gail
McPeake which is me and my phone number that's it step four he put people who I
can ask for help he wrote Gail McPeake and my number that's it
so in his mind like I was it right that's a huge responsibility right uh
step five was professionals or agencies I can contact during a crisis
blank is a blank right yeah so; he didn't write anybody there that he
felt he could contact and then the last one was last little note here is making your environment
safe it was blank now you one would think, and he signed it one would think that after a person
wrote this you'd sit down with the person review it kind of fill in the stuff that they didn't right
um or and also saying especially if they were ever suicidal in the past like what's your homesteading like you know
do you have a gun at all those types of things Tom didn't own a gun but I’m just saying that's what you would
think would happen now to their credit and I'm sure it's a requirement he was given a printed copy of all the
emergency room 911 the suicide Coalition line or prevention line but Tom really had a fear
of the government he thought the government one of his delusions was he thought the government planted a chip in his head and that they would someday
capture him and bury him alive yeah that's a pretty frightening belief okay
so is he the type of person who would call a government agency no so
um at any rate the point of the safe bringing up the safety plan is this is critical right
this is a critical thing for not only the person here's your safety plan but for the community health worker all
right so let me talk about the community health agency because they were very caring
um they recognize when time needed hospitalization for it to begin with right the crisis team had to come and
take him there so I got a call the day that Tom
died actually that morning that was day three right or no it's day two okay so I
had gone home I'm let me rewind so when Tom was discharged, I picked him up that
was April Fool's April 1st April Fool's Day it was April 1st and I stayed
with him for two days I had to get all new medications he was on fifteen different
new medications some of them were for the side effects like blood pressure medications
and medications for tremoring and the side effect called tardive dyskinesia different things like that
um we had to get food right we had to run errands then I he was living in a
house that I owned which was about an hour away from me that his sister was going to be living
with him eventually so we did our errands and I stayed with him that day and I knew right then
he was still quite delusional and sad
um but you know you want to eat you know I took him to the favorite he had this hot dog shop that he loved we ate there
the next day we ordered Chipotle which he loves but so I was watching and he
was pacing it up right so I stayed with him another day made meals tidied
up his place made sure he had good laundry and then the then that evening I went
home because I saw that he took a shower by himself he took his own medications and I had to go home and sleep yeah
because he was, I was unable to sleep for like two nights and I said you know call me if you need me, he had a cell phone
um and we'll come back you know in a day or two and see how you're doing so I
left in that next morning I called him at 9 30 in the morning and he answered the phone
and I said oh how you doing okay did you take your medicine yeah and so okay and he didn't really feel
like talking so about an hour later I got a call from the community case management, and they said we've been
trying to make our call you know we have to call within 72 hours and see how Tom's doing
um but he's not answering, and I said keep trying to call him or go over and
see him send somebody over there I said because I didn't want them to make a note saying
mother contacted him and said he was fine I didn't want them to use that as their 72-hour check, so I doubt if
they ever got a hold of him because it was only hours later that this happened so point being
um that's such a such a vulnerable time and I'm looking back now that I am aware
of this critical time I probably would have done things a little differently which is part of the
thing I have to live with right if I'd have known that that first week is so critical when he was you know yeah
that maybe I would have made a different plan, but I can't look backward and live my life like that instead I'm looking forward and seeing if I can do anything
else to help others maybe prevent the tragedy I will want to say though I want to talk about the VA a little bit
because they're on to this you know the suicide rate for veterans is like fifty higher than the general public because
so many of them deal with PTSD from the various Wars
and they have a program I don't know how Nationwide it is, but many states have this program where they recognize this
critical time and the minute the veteran if he's hospitalized in their behavior health unit, they make contact within twenty-four
hours there's one program where they actually send cards like care cards like
it's a postcard they have ready for when they're discharged it's in the mail so right away the person gets this like I
care about you and this is when I'm going to see you next call here and just to let them know somebody's out there
caring you didn't just leave the hospital and waiting for your next appointment, so they have a lot and they
actually have a YouTube describing this yeah, their care transition program so if you ever get a
chance they have a really cool YouTube video just look oh I should have it's like a YouTube veteran VA if you put
Suicide Prevention uh care transition and I'll get that
for you too okay great yeah so that’s pretty cool
um all right so those are my major oh one more thing is to increase
the extended care options for people who aren't well enough yet to just be out in
the community right so this isn't just about schizophrenia as I said but as far
as people with schizophrenia certain percentage like 25 percent really do well on their meds and are
able to function in society some even have jobs I have a cousin who's was diagnosed in in college and he's fifty-seven
now he's great like he came to a funeral service a few weeks ago and no one
would ever know he had schizophrenia he was so engaging and asking how people are doing it wasn't delusional at all
laughing smiling interacting so he's one of the top twenty-five then there are another fifty
or so who with enough supports can manage right can manage and then there's
that other group 15 to 20 percent who have what we call treatment resistant
schizophrenia where they really benefit if there were more some long-term care
or extended care and maybe not long-term care like a nursing home but extended care so when they come from down from a
crisis time that they could have a little more care and that would be, and I know there
are there was a Bill in Congress a couple years ago I don't know if it's still active or if it died but where
they were trying to do that sort of thing increase funding for maybe some extended care because you know back in the day really in my lifetime 50 years
ago when they dumped everybody with severe mental illness out into the community
um though that care was gone for the serious who needed more supports and
many of those are really actually homeless now they up to up to fifty of people homeless do
have serious mental health problems so at any rate that be another thing that I would really like to
advocate for so after I wrote this and how else can I get this message out to people right so
what I did is sent well at least fifty emails to every
head of in every state there's a head of the samhsa the substance abuse mental
health services the federal Agency for mental health that comes up with these practice guidelines for the communities
right I sent them all an email introducing the book and mainly just
like is this you know part of your best practice and please include a part of your best practice
to let people know about this transition period
um couple responded to me, but I want to give a huge shout out to the one that blew me away was Trumbull County yeah
I think her name is April Caraway she responded right away
when she read my email, she said I'm getting the book and then she did two weeks later she responded she said this
is horrible I'm getting making sure I get this book for my because she runs the mental health part for her County uh
for my staff, the hospital staff, and the community mental health agency it
required that they read it and then figure out what we can do to make things better
that's wonderful right that's the result you hope for right so kudos to them, and they invited me to
be on their suicide coalition group so I started doing that
um in coming to their meetings and talking you know it's just spreading the word also who responded I also got the
um mailing list for all I looked up what colleges teach psychiatrists have the
psychiatrist Psychiatry residency program because it seems like that'd be an important thing to include when
you're training people who are going to work in that setting right and I got a response actually from Yale
Harvard I can't remember neomed which is our local one in
Rootstown but and I'll talk about that in a second but a couple of them said thank you for this information we will
take a look at it and if we can we'll you know see what we can do with it which is
more than nothing and two of The Faculty at Rootstown
neocon because they have a psychiatric program invited me to meet with them in at Akron Hospital yeah so kudos to them
and that is that St Thomas I think is the Behavioral Unit there and they spent an hour listening to the
story here and thinking about how they might include that kind of warning and safety plan for people
yeah so, I feel good about that it's really hard to Book Sales haven't been
that great but and it's really hard when you're not somebody famous or you get on the I don't know how people get on but I
reached out to like oh Oprah's best seller you know all those never heard anything back from those kind of things
um and then news agencies right and someone from The Washington Post said oh I'll be in contact maybe when we do a
thing so far you voices were voices have been one of the most responsive media
type of outlets so I do appreciate this opportunity
um so my journey as a mom you want me to cover that maybe um
on a personal note
something you never think twice of when your child has an illness right, you're there you don't it doesn't matter
whether they're a child or have become an adult most often once people are
adults it becomes tricky because they're their own Guardian right so they can do what
they want other professionals have to only talk to them if they're in the
hospital they can't let you know they're in the hospital unless the person has enough wherewithal is to say I want to
put this I want this person to know that I'm here right so there were a few times Thomas in the hospital, and I didn't even
realize it until you know maybe I'd get a call saying do you know your son is here but um
It's tricky in the times when he's not in the hospital or wasn't in the hospital is that all those years right
the contact now Tom was a very loving friendly good son that's all I can say
he wasn’t like he'd call me every day he'd call me every day and sometimes several times
a day and he might just say hi just what do you do how's it going, and he wouldn't
listen to me very long because he'd want to talk a little bit and then he'd hang up, but he'd always say thanks for
everything you do for me, so he was such a grateful guy right and I really miss you know I missed those phone calls
um but I always had to think about his medications check on him was he really taking them you know and follow up with
everything make sure he I used to have to take him to a Psychiatry appointments
and do things like if I wanted to tell the psychiatrist something I
couldn't just say it because Tom would like don't talk about me you know so I would have to write little notes and try
to get to them before the appointment which I'm you know they could use or not use the information I was trying to be a
team member and that was the only way I could be a team member so for instance back in 2014 I wrote one side
psychiatrist before our visit just to give you a flavor of the support
that's needed right that the person once they're there or if they're having a very delusional, they might not be able
to tell the doctor so I wrote this note ahead of time saying it's been about four weeks since
Tom Sawyer and increased his Risperdal we're still seriously concerned for his failure to get back to an acceptable
point of stability Tom's paranoia delusions and hallucinations continue to consume him
he can't even act meaningfully with his son
unless we coached him, he Simon his son Simon was visiting us he didn't live
with them he lived with his mom Simon did Simon we would have him over occasionally because they didn't live in
the same city but Tom and his 14-year-old son Simon were at our home for three
days and Tom like couldn't focus enough to interact with Simon so we say why
don't you go sit with Simon why don't you watch TV this is the things I was telling the doctor his apartment is filthy
disorganized mess with dirty dishes trash and cigarette butts covering the floor of every room I took fourteen loads of
laundry home to wash which he had not done in a month Tom laughed about it saying he wore dirty clothes to work
last weekend three days in a row while he worked in a bloody meat market in the area where you
sanitize everything so you don't want to be wearing dirty clothes to that right
um oh and I'm sure the grocery store will not continue his employment in this
condition Tom claims he's taking his medications but we're not seeing enough results even his sisters admit to being
afraid at times because he's talking so erratic can you think of how to get him to take an avega injection again what
else can be done so here I am like making suggestions because I know what worked in the past
right and I know that he must not be getting the right level of medication, or he must not be ski maybe he's skipping
them the doctor wouldn't know that unless I tell him Tom's sure not going to tell him right so that's that important piece of family or team input
family is a team as a team member um
and you know he saw a psychiatrist every three months so imagine that over 17 years every three months you know you
worry your contact and I found myself not only acting as his Advocate but
often as his case manager and his support system
um so and one would think that having me as a nurse right for a mother I would have like an in or a leg up you know
like a an advantage right in the Health Care System but it really didn't make a difference
a because of the HIPAA requirements B I'm not a psychiatric nurse although I
feel like I've learned a lot through the years right and I've cared for other people in the community with serious
mental health issues but it is a little different when it's yours person and you
have to be there day to day advocating him the one advantage I did have is that Tom
willingly signed the HIPAA agreement he wasn't the type of person I get out of here you can't come with me so luckily, I
did have more information than you know maybe I was able to have enough information
um so the other part of a chapter in the
book that I want to talk about and just the subject itself is grief
so one would think that let me first go talk a little about my nursing career
early in my nursing career like early in mind or when I've been a nurse
50 years okay all right so early on I was an or nurse for a few years a
hospital nurse a doctor's office just a school nurse but my main Decades of
career were in the field of developmental disabilities taking care of or overseeing the care of
people in the community in group homes or in apartments they had developmental disabilities
um and they had lots of different you know diagnoses and all but the first place I ever worked for
was an agency that took care of children seriously
disabled children and it was I guess you'd call it an institution now there were 124 children that lived there from
Age 2 to 21 and none of them could speak all in
wheelchairs all had to be full full-time care for all of their needs right
feeding hygiene everything so they were for different reasons they were there
accidents birth defects people kids who didn't get vaccinations and then got the you know had terrible brain damage at
times from certain viruses but about ten of those children died
every year okay and I was there for 17 years old I knew a lot of the families
I knew the kids you know overseeing their care for that
longer period of time and so I knew them when they died right so think about that
over 17 years an average of maybe ten children dying a year that's almost two hundred kids right
it was very different to have my own child die even though I was close to those
children so you would think that if you whether
they have developmental disabilities or a serious mental illness you really kind of lose that child at that point right
um if they're born normal like most people with serious mental illness and then they get sick at age 22 23
they become a different person they become a different person and so there's a period where you kind of mourn
that loss oh I guess they'll never maybe graduate from college which is not to say some don't
um but they'll need a level of support jobs driving all of those things become
either non-existent or minimal right
um so there's grief there and then if they happen to die before you there's grief there and it’s you
miss them even though it was a struggle, and you knew how much they struggled it's a huge loss it's a huge cavity
um so I wanted to read what my daughter wrote Because I do have to mention Thomas has two sisters
um and they're they were highly impacted as well it wasn't just me the mother right highly impacted, they were
wonderful support to their brother his sister Julie like she had them over
all the time and she would check when he lived in an apartment alone, she'd go there and clean his apartment and you
know take him out to eat Bonnie lived in North Carolina during times kind of
his last years and when he had an up a crisis where he thought World War III was
happening and had to leave Ohio he agreed to go live with her, so she took him in and that was a wonderful thing
and she provided a lot of a lot of happiness for him and stability and a feeling of safety for him
but she wrote a little she helped me with this book doing the graphics and all
um and editing and she wrote a paragraph that I got her permission to use and hear about grief if I could read it yes
please oh I didn't mention because she speaks of this that their dad had schizophrenia
as well okay so my first marriage Tom's father
he although most people get schizophrenia when they're in their early twenties or late teens
he didn't get it until he was almost thirty. yeah, and we had been married a few years by then
um so the kids were already born all right and then he got it, and we did end up getting
divorced but it was still even though my kids
didn't live with their dad then after you know since they were little kids they still had
15 years or so because he died young as well, they had 15 years where he was in
their lives and they worried about him that's their dad regardless of whether he had severe mental illness all right so
she references that so this is my daughter Bonnie what she wrote in the grief about grief
my heart was broken by this disease that took my daddy away when I was a little girl and replaced him with his
zombie-like person just a body really that used to contain my dad until I was in my early twenties
I was devastated when he died but also a bit relieved not to have to be needled all day by this disease that ruined my
father's life I thought maybe I could go on and heal then shortly after he died my little
brother started to suffer from the same fate I'd been through crushing stress of
mental illness for my whole life already and now I knew it wasn't going to go away now my brother would turn into a zombie
like my dad it was traumatic for me to be around him and see what ruined my childhood and
broke my heart it was so sad for me to be hopelessly watched my little brother lose his life in the way that my father
did so when she's talking about zombie a lot of the medications maybe talk a
little about that medications tend to sometimes change a
person too by their side effects right so many of
those antipsychotics and not so much antidepressants but they have their own side effect profile have
um some really serious side effects like sedation for number one like making people want to sleep and I have a
sibling actually who was put on Depakote for example, which is a started out as a seizure Med, but it's used like first
um it's almost like the most popular medication for bipolar now
because it's a mood stabilizer right but it causes extreme sedation especially
when you first start on I my relative was started on it and she actually fell
asleep behind the wheel and got a DUI yeah so, it's considered whether you're drinking alcohol or taking a medication
there's one of the risks right safety luckily, she didn't get in a horrible accident
um so it's side effects so side effects of sedation blood pressure changes Tom
was on two different blood pressure medications that they quadrupled when he was in his final Hub because his blood pressure got
so high from the meds that we're supposed to try to help him um
there's a side effect called tardive dyskinesia which means late abnormal muscle movements that's very common in
people taking antipsychotics even that whether it's the older ones like Haldol melorel Thorazine or the newer second
class generation ones like Zyprexa Risperdal Seroquel there's newer ones
too Latuda the there's about fifteen now but they all have that potential for
tardive dyskinesia and suicide ideation is also on pretty much everyone except
claustral suicide ideation is listed in many of the antidepressants as you
probably know from talking to people also have that caveat in the on Black
Box warning that it could cause suicide ideation now that's the one thing that mystifies me still that concept I tried
looking up like what does that mean, and I know it means like having thoughts of end in your life right that's what
suicide ideation means but it's always buckled my mind how
could a medication that's supposed to help you feel less depressed less anxious less uh
psychotic how could that make you feel like you want to end your life, so I still don't have a clear answer
from researching that I did find one study that said something
about the side effects or maybe it causes Clarity and then the person realizes different things I don't
know am I don't know if I might can, I ask you like do you have any concept or yeah experience with that yeah, I mean
myself being on antidepressants and I should Seroquel that's one
and yeah, the I personally I don't I don't get how
something is supposed to help puts you right maybe in the cusp of thinking about and in your life which is the very
thing one of the favorite things it's meant supposed to take you away from
um and personally from having you know the side effects of drowsiness and
some of them take a little bit of time to even start working and so that that was always a concern of mine of
okay well I just don't feel great well the neck doctor would say well it's
going to take a couple weeks it's like but I don't know how I'm gonna make it a couple weeks to get to get to that
point luckily, I just had a the medication change and it was an another
native person added in a smaller dose
and yeah, just the depression
part it for me it's helping but there still are times where don't feel great
and these like just random thoughts come in it's not even oh I'm gonna take a
rope and I'm gonna it's not like those types of things it's just more like okay well maybe what I'm doing isn't making
an impact and that can happen to anybody whether they have mental illness or not and so
those types of things do creep in and getting that validation you mentioned uh
with the VA having the postcard ready when somebody is discharged
those types of things it is incredible those little types of things when I
get in the mail or whatever if it's a text message or an email just a
different ways of even it's just like hey thanks it doesn't have to be some paragraphs and some news story but just
getting those is this nice validation and from an early age I remember
I had and part of my sister she had Straight A’s, and I was like the
perfect person and per se and then I came along, and my grades were not as great and she
had job offers right out of school like four or five and I struggled and so it was just constant and trying to
prove myself of like look at what I'm doing look at because you know I'm not a failure and even though I wasn't those
thoughts were happening at an early age and even now I'm 41 and I'm feeling like
oh you know when there's a an episode going look, we just taped it because I want people to know that
we're doing good work in what I'm doing matters and uh
even yeah, my phase of finding out at age 35
uh with the major depression and anxiety and low Spectrum autism and these things
that I'd been told well you can't have that because you should have been diagnosed when you were younger yeah you
you can't have that and so those types of things would creep in too like people are questioning like I'm trying to be
open about you know here's me and so when I speak and talk like okay I have
some experience around it and people question it it's like oh my gosh like all I'm trying to do is help I'm not
saying I'm an expert I don't have the training you're a nurse you have that
training and you're done a ton of research into the field and so
those little things they come up they creep up from time to time and even now
it's like oh my gosh like am I doing stuff that matters and like is it really gonna matter if I'm still around in ten
years and where it's not I'm not making the plans to end it but then find out when I was admitted that those are
suicide ideation type of thing yeah pulling away from things and so
now this is your point about the clarity there are times where the clearness of
what's happened what's going on where I am clear I'm like oh my gosh like I go
from having say negative thoughts to like okay I have things in good shape and so
that mental energy is opened up and I've heard and read different stories where
some people to take their own lives it's when they're busy it's good to be busy
because if they're not then it has Moment of clarity or just to think and
slow down and they're just like okay you've done a lot of good great things and it's not that they had like thought
about it like oh maybe they thought about it for weeks and weeks and weeks and it could just be that moment in time where they had a month to think and like
oh my gosh like okay what's the big deal and then it happens and I'm clearly
trying to stay away from that and trying to just pack my life with things
and it might especially my wife come across as very busy and like time
consuming but for me I almost have to do it I need to be consumed by something
and those times of meditation and trying to slow the Mind down while I do need
that and time for Sleep times throughout the day I just need to have
things on my schedule and I even asked my therapist a couple years ago because
I was worried about that I was like Am I Ever Gonna I feel like once I accomplished these three things or email these three people
then what am I going to do, and he said Justin you're always gonna have things that you're doing
um and so I've kind of just taken that and when I have my list of things to do like okay well, I need to do this I'm
going to do that and anyways that's a little bit of like my yeah and I'm
I'm loving I'm noting the things some of the things you were saying just now so it's not just about medications right
um it's all those other tools that you're doing right and so maybe that's a piece
of this message right it's not as this message that's trying to support a person so just one other thing I want to
say about suicide ideation so if these meds all say that right and we need them so badly certain people really need them
and they're not happy pills they are help you get through each day or think
more clearly right then what kind of support do you need like somebody has to be monitoring that
right you can't be in this world alone, so you reach out you have other
tools like you mentioned meditation you have your therapist person to talk to you do self-gratification like I'm sure
you have your little okay these are the things I'm going to do and then you reflect on them too like okay no these
are the things I've accomplished, and some people will write them out right like affirmations they call them but
that's why other people are so important to you know don't to not avoid people who are depressed even
though they don't want to join you but just to say a little something or you know reach out a little bit that a text
even can make a difference to some people because that's the thing we use now right and to be really careful about our
words our posts on Facebook that could come across as like so judgmental and
you know because we're divided about our politics maybe but that doesn't mean we can't love each other absolutely I had to come to that
conclusion you know because our fan Even in our own families you know but it's
all those things of remembering like we're just vulnerable humans are so sensitive I think yes, we're you
know amazing and strong compared to the animal world or the rest of the world animal world but we’re not we're
delicate sensitive and we need each other, and we need those tools right so if we're taking a medication that might
have these side effects or you need somebody to help monitor that right and then having a safety plan as such of
what I can do okay here are my affirmations oh you know oh maybe I'll go sit in a hot bathtub or whatever it
is or this type of me we know of type of music most of us know that help our change our mood right I don't know about
you but I have a playlist perk me up so just all of those things
it's so important that we're there for each other and big or small ways right yeah
so I want to thank you for the opportunity I'm not sure if I yeah because heard everything is that is
there anything that you can think of we have a couple minutes left if something you want to it's just encouraging like maybe there's so
many people going into the nursing field now because it's a field that like first of all
baby boomers like myself by the day there's like 10 000 of us reaching age 65. and that'll happen for a decade or
so more and we're going to need nursing care right and there's already a nursing shortage I have
two nieces that are graduating actually this year from nursing school and so many nurses too want to go on right away
now and be nurse practitioners which is fine we need those too, but we also need a lot of and
you might think well I'm going into obstetrics I'm going into surgery but
you need this information right because you'll run across people who are depressed In Obstetrics who are
depressed and or having struggles addiction struggles we all know that what a big thing that is
um so nursing students need to know this I have a two little personal comments
one is about the tools and support last week I attended a funeral for a seventeen
year old who yeah and this was you know a kid who had a lot of friends who
was a great student a great personality but who knows what tips people right
um and it was so sad and so sudden you know like young people because I know this with my own family
members when something happens because I remember being young once something happens like a boyfriend break up or
whatever it's the end of the world right you think no one will ever care about you so
somehow, they need that big picture and maybe they may remind it I think that's why we're supposed to take history
classes to look back at history and say like look we went through 50 years ago my generation oh my gosh nuclear war
threat hiding under the desks you know assassinations and now things happen in
young people but it might seem like really huge to them, so adults right experienced adults need to
present the big picture I think and reassure you know and not have the Doom and Gloom and of watching the news every
day and just pointing out the bad because that can suck people down the other thing is I came across a great
article maybe someone sent it a few weeks ago or months ago that talked about when you have a friend or a loved
one with depression try not to just being there
just be there for them or listen to them or hang out in the same room
try not to like let's do you have a positive attitude look at this person or let's try this
out you just try to you know like preaching to a person or trying to think you're helpful by saying oh look at the
bright side they can't hear that yeah and it's actually like an insult to a
person really in the depths of depression so-so that was one thing I want to
mention about that and there was another but being I'm a senior I forgot it
oh the nursing students yeah, I have another friend's daughter
who's out west and she is a new nurse as of a few months ago and she wanted to
work in Psychiatric so she just got her first job in an actual Behavioral Health Unit in a hospital
and so I'm really curious to know like how things run there you know
um so I'm hearing some stories, but I want to find out what their kind of
safety plans are and you know like there's a little in so maybe promote that send her a book
so ah thanks again you're welcome anything else that you covered everything that I
was hoping to cover and more we just want to thank you for your
time and continuing in Town's Legacy and sharing him what the I mean the world
thank you you're welcome I wouldn't be here if it wasn't too Fair yeah, you're reaching out so yeah happy to include
you with what's going on because it's important and to your point it
doesn't matter what field you're in mental health is health so just because
we can't see it there are things that people are going through regardless of whether they have been diagnosed with
depression today they might be going through depressive times exactly a
trauma might have happened and then they're like whoop and I love myself you just hit the nail on the head
just being there for somebody that's I but my family sometimes that's what just
having somebody in the same room not that you have to have a conversation the whole time but just kind of being there
and knowing that somebody cares and is sitting there and that that
that's one hundred correct from somebody who feels L.A and I've haven't continued uh
trying to do better be honest thank you for everything you do and just more success of being
able to share and Advocate and getting the message across so people are
educated about the numbers The Experience what you've gone through, and you know being the nurse and having
even if it wasn't in the psychiatric field there's still things that are
common like imagine like blood pressure and blood sugar that are effective
affect everybody gotta check so thank you and thank you
to our audience our viewers our listeners for joining in this episode the Voices for Voices podcast and a
big thank you to our in-studio guest today Gail McPeake for spending some time
with us and until next time I am Justin Alan Hayes and I hope you have a great
day and be a voice for you or somebody in need [Music] [Applause]
[Music] thank you
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